New 4 Stoke Class for 2009

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Re: New 4 Stoke Class for 2009

Post  Jessica Luther on Tue Aug 12, 2008 2:23 pm

I may have some 35 gears..we ran them when Ricky was in jr1.
I will have to look . affraid

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Re: New 4 stroke class for 2009

Post  Neil on Tue Aug 12, 2008 11:23 pm

Thanks, Karl and Dan for giving me your info. Just about all my questions have been answered. I am going for the Box Stock Project spec. to start with. Karl I donít have any #35 sprockets except for an unused #35 Horstman DXL drum. Wonít do us any good for our BSP engines. Chris, have you had your BSP out yet? As soon as you do, put your impressions on this forum. Canít wait to see what you think.

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Re: New 4 Stoke Class for 2009

Post  Dan Chase on Wed Aug 13, 2008 2:13 am

My personal kart and the first one on the track will be a BSP, I have only been researching the Limited Box for a possible Jr. II class, the durn kids want to go faster, not me! No

I'll be interested to hear how well the stock filter fits on all of your karts. The motor is a tight fit on my old Emmick Viper, an after market Mikuni carb will not clear the tire, maybe a Tillotson would. I have not been able to get any work done on mine, work and Matt's racing have kept me busy 24-7!
It's time to catch some Sleep
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Re: New 4 Stoke Class for 2009

Post  Karl Cleeton on Wed Aug 13, 2008 9:36 am

Jason using the "Prepping a 196cc OHV 6.5 hp 4 cycle engine for kart racing" video to get our first engine ready for testing.

Link to video at: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8437175947289672519&hl=e


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Re: New 4 Stoke Class for 2009

Post  Dan Chase on Wed Aug 13, 2008 10:13 am

Karl, Have you and Jason test fit the motor on any of your karts? How did they fit on the newer karts with the seat struts welded in? You should send that pic to Tom at ARC, I bet he would get a kick out of it! Wink
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Re: New 4 stroke class for 2009

Post  Neil on Wed Aug 13, 2008 10:15 pm

Hey Jason! The video that you have on that Laptop has a very high tech electric impact that has a preset torque that changes automatically when it senses a particular bolt size. Where is yours? I see a ratchet wrench on your bench. Nice Laptop though!

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Re: New 4 Stoke Class for 2009

Post  Jason Hernandez on Thu Aug 14, 2008 7:04 am

Hey Neil, my torque wrench is built in, my father had it, his father had it, and his father had it. My elbow clicks at the proper torque spec.

Kinda cool huh? lol!


Last edited by Jason Hernandez on Thu Aug 14, 2008 6:56 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: New 4 Stoke Class for 2009

Post  Dan Chase on Thu Aug 14, 2008 9:28 am

Hmmmmmmm, My elbow clicks too, but I thought it was from getting off a motorcycle head first at 80mph?!? affraid

Maybe I should try that on Matt's wheel lugs??? Wink
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Re: New 4 stroke class for 2009

Post  Neil on Thu Aug 14, 2008 11:15 am

Oh gosh. My elbow just hurts, when it gets cold. And the tool guys just scratch there heads when I ask them about the ďElectric auto setting Torque/Impact gun.Ē Go figure, I will still have to use the Ďol click torque wrench from Auto Zone. Itís not even a Cra_sman! Simon, what happened on your trip to Truckee? Did you get an engine? Make sure you follow along with the video by ARC. They show step by step how to prep the 6.5 hp clone engine.

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Re: New 4 Stoke Class for 2009

Post  Scott Bura on Thu Aug 14, 2008 11:40 am

I race F200 so when I built a kart for the kids a clone engine was a natural choice. The kart was on track for the first time last week (at Davis).

After waiting months for HF to restock I gave up and got an engine via Ebay for $150 delivered (a Sterling from Carroll Stream Motor Company). I've disconnected the oil sensor but retained the gov. I need to drill out the jet and decrease the clutch engagement speed (Noram GE) but otherwise it ran fine and the kids had fun (my real objective).

As far as making it a class I think having the club own the engines will keep costs in check and make for good racing. The downside is the club needs to purchase and maintain the engines, and support the drivers during a race (or at least provide some orientation). The club would also need to make the engines available for practice days.

If you do decide to go with karter owned engines, don't restrict it to a particlar retailer. My HF experience says you just can't rely on a retailer to keep stock - racers will be high and dry. And I suspect retailers routinely change suppliers anyway.

I'll be at Davis this weekend. If there is interest I could bring it out. (Keep in mind it's set up for an 11 and 12 year old so test drives won't be possible.)

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Re: New 4 Stoke Class for 2009

Post  Dan Chase on Thu Aug 14, 2008 6:36 pm

Welcome to the forum, Scott! Bring them out to Dixon sometime for a test day, we have quite a few families interested in running these motors next year with Juniors II drivers (12-15 year olds)!
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Re: New 4 stroke class for 2009

Post  Neil on Thu Aug 14, 2008 7:38 pm

Scott, you are so right. We have been discussing having a group of engines and Pee-pick for an engine each race. Otherwise, the tinkerers will start working on there individual engines and the Comer scenario starts again. Sorry, Iím not knocking the Comers. However, we needed to find the right combination of clutch, engine mount, oilÖ.. And we all needed a practice engine anyway. Well, thatís the excuse we are using to get the old chassis dusted off and us back into the driverís seat. Thanks for your insight and come check us out at Dixon.

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Re: New 4 Stoke Class for 2009

Post  Simon on Fri Aug 15, 2008 3:50 pm

Neil wrote:Simon, what happened on your trip to Truckee? Did you get an engine? Make sure you follow along with the video by ARC. They show step by step how to prep the 6.5 hp clone engine.

Had a successful trip to Reno HF this morning. I'm pretty much all ready to go racing ... well ... maybe a little more work to do .... ;-)

In all seriousness, I would like to see a few pictures of a motor and clutch bolted onto a chassis. Looks like its going to be a tight squeeze by the seat/seat bracket.

Also, anyone got a 'fat old boy' sized seat they want to sell ? My used chassis came with 'runway model' sized seat.

Simon.
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Re: New 4 Stoke Class for 2009

Post  Dan Chase on Fri Aug 15, 2008 6:52 pm

Nice! That makes what, about 5 or 6 dad karts so far? Simon, I have a large padded MoJo seat and I'm looking for a Medium seat for Matt, maybe we could trade? If mine doesn't fit you, I would buy your seat if your selling it and it fits Matt's skinny "runway model" rump! Wink

I'll snap a pic of the BMI motor mount for you, it's very adjustable.

Drop me an email or call me if your interested in making a deal on seats, I need one before the next club race on the 24th.
Danimation@aol.com
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Re: New 4 Stoke Class for 2009

Post  Hinton Motorsports on Sat Aug 16, 2008 9:31 am

Dan, Karl... Did you get my email???

Simon, Let me know what size seat you need, we carry new, used, old, and BIG BOY.. Smile

Just to let you guys know, we carry most of the 4 cycle stuff you mentioned in stock at online type pricing.. Noram and Max-Torque Clutches... 4 cycle Exhaust systems, Inexpensive mount mount systems.. Throttle linkages, #35 chains and gears.. We are 4 cycle guys, let us know how we can help.

We also carry Burris hard spec tires (B55a) that are VERY affordable (compared to Bstones) and they Last! Ideal spec tire!

You can reach Hinton Motorsports at 916-276-1788 (Sacramento)

Thanks,

Todd Hinton
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Re: New 4 Stoke Class for 2009

Post  Dan Chase on Sat Aug 16, 2008 11:52 am

HI Todd,

I didn't get your email, could you please resend it to Danimation@aol.com

That's great we have a local dealer that carries the thumper parts, I think I need a new clutch for mine, I didn't get enough teeth!
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Re: New 4 Stoke Class for 2009

Post  Karl Cleeton on Sat Aug 16, 2008 1:28 pm

Thanks Todd, I did get your email. I'm glad to see you here posting on the Kinsmen forum.
Now we have someone that really knows thumpers and can help with parts too!

Dan, How many teeth on your clutch and what gearing are you planning on start testing with? If it is >12t MaxTorque you should be able to just change the driver.

Simon, nice roller! keep us posted on your build and when you go to test.

~Karl
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Re: New 4 Stoke Class for 2009

Post  Hinton Motorsports on Sat Aug 16, 2008 1:44 pm

Dan, Check your email..


Karl,

No problem, thanks for the kind words... We are set up for the OHV 4 cycles and can do any work you may need. We have been tuning these things for awile now so feel free to call for tech advice, parts or just bench race.. 916-276-1788. Smile

Have you guys got the rules figured out yet?? Please let me know if you need any help with this, I might be able to help you to keep things sane and cost reasonable in the class..
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Re: New 4 stroke class for 2009

Post  Neil on Sat Aug 16, 2008 9:24 pm

Todd, I have a few questions that deal with the Box Stock Project 6.5 HP Clone engine. What RPM should the clutch come in at? What should the Max RPM be with the stock carb and exhaust? Lastly, what should the head temp range be, if there is such a thing on 4 strokes?

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Re: New 4 Stoke Class for 2009

Post  Hinton Motorsports on Sun Aug 17, 2008 2:57 pm

Neil,

The Box Stock cloans make most of thier power at about the 49-5000 RPM area on the dyno.. The valves start floating around 5700 rpm or so so you want to gear around that area for max RPM. Above that RPM things get ugly and you will start to scatter stock internal engine parts eventually. Setting the clutch around 2500 rpm is a good start. I recommend staying away from the really cheap "lawn and garden" clutches, they dont work very consistantly and the engagement can be all over the place, Noram and Torque-Max are good RACING choices and reasonably priced. Head temp can range widely depending on a lot of factors including ambient temp, chassis set up, oil used and jetting. On average you will probably see mid to upper 300's 380-390 would be considered fairly normal.. "Lean is Mean" so running leaner will gain power and heat to a certain point. "Really hot" is anything over 450f, sometimes that is whats fast so it depends on your personal risk level and how bad you want to win.. Smile btw, the oil you run makes a difference, we use RED-E oil, when I first tested it, engine temps dropped 20 degrees and had to drop 2 teeth off the rear gear(also showed HP gain on the dyno). Red-e told me it would do this in their sales pitch and I didnt really believe it (I really disdane snake oils.. Ive been approached by more snake oil salesmen in my 20 years in the automotive business than I care to remember Evil or Very Mad ) until I used it. It did everything red-e said it would and the rod and journals have never looked cleaner! BTW, This oil is designed for a "splash" type, non filtered oiling system, regular shelf automotive oil is not. I do advise what ever oil you chose to use, at least use an oil that is designed for splash oiling for a 4 cycle kart engine.
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Re: New 4 stroke class for 2009

Post  Neil on Sun Aug 17, 2008 4:28 pm

Thanks Todd for your very thorough explanations. This will give me a good starting point and an idea as to what parts I need. We have always raced 2 stroke Kart engines. The Box Stock will be a great 4 stroke starter for us. Thanks again and I hope to be talking to you soon.

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List of informational sites to check out

Post  Jason Hernandez on Wed Aug 20, 2008 12:00 pm

I have gone through this thread and pulled all the links to have a list:

1. http://arcracing.blogspot.com/2008/07/new-superbox-kit.html Arc Racing

2. http://www.maxtorque.com/html/racing.html Max Torque Clutch

3. http://www.bmikarts.com/shop/index.php?shop=1&itemid=193&passedfrom=thumb&showFullImage= 15 deg. engine mount

4. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCPSx7gMyL0&feature=related

5. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEq6Ehc78N4 Videos of the karts in action

6. Boxstockproject.com Arc Racing

7.
GatorMotoRacing

8.
OHV Motors - Box Stock Project (Clone)

9.
http://karting.4cycle.com/showthread.php?t=204340 Bobs4cycle forum

10.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8437175947289672519&hl=e Video of preping the motor for box stock

11.
RMracing@aol.com R&M Motorcycle Eng. (925) 798-4360

12.
http://www.toolsmartusa.com/65hpgasengine.html Engines $40 more than harborfreight delivered to your house



This list will probably grow much larger in time, but it is what I have for now.

If you have a link to be added, let me know and I will update the list.

Keep in mind that Hinton Motorsports is local (Sacramento) to see about 4 cycle questions, and possibly clone parts?
He has posted above and has a link to his site under his name. (shameless plug for you Todd!)


Last edited by Jason Hernandez on Thu Aug 21, 2008 7:11 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : added linkys)

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Re: New 4 Stoke Class for 2009

Post  Dan Chase on Wed Aug 20, 2008 6:17 pm

And don't forget that our own Kinsman VP Rick Luther can get clutches (NorAm IIRC), chain and other parts through his company R&M Motorcycle Eng. (925) 798-4360 RMracing@aol.com

Also if you just can't wait for someone to go over the hill to Reno to buy your clone at Harbor Freight, you can get them shipped to your door here for about $40 more.
http://www.toolsmartusa.com/65hpgasengine.html
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Re: New 4 Stoke Class for 2009

Post  Jessica Luther on Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:56 pm

dont forget Melanie will be in reno for the ikf in Reno. you might ask her for a small favor !! affraid

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Preping the 4 Cycle

Post  Jason Hernandez on Thu Aug 28, 2008 8:46 am

It looks like our fearless leader " El Presidente" has accuired a 4 cycle engine to set up. He will bring it to the track this Friday and I will show him how to disconnect the oil sender and remove the governor. If you are interested in seeing it done, or have your engine and are not sure about doing it, bring it out on Friday afternoon and I will help you out.

Neil, did you get the PM I sent you?

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Re: New 4 Stoke Class for 2009

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