New 4 Stoke Class for 2009

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Re: New 4 Stoke Class for 2009

Post  Jessica Luther on Thu Oct 09, 2008 9:59 am

Meeting is the 3rd tues. of every month at Round table Pizza. same place its been for 3 years.

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wka clone flywheel rules

Post  sjburnsed on Thu Oct 09, 2008 1:42 pm

i read that any non karting specific engine turning over 4500 rpm's it was mandatory that they had to have a sfi approved fly wheel. will this apply to us. if so which one will be allowed to used. just asking because i will to be able to attend the meeting. thank's ,Chris. Very Happy

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Re: New 4 Stoke Class for 2009

Post  Jessica Luther on Thu Oct 09, 2008 2:21 pm

Yes, this will apply due to liablity issues. (sorry Jason) Safety comes first.
I , will check and see what I can find out, Maybe Jason or Karl already know. Jaosn wrote me and said he maybe going out of town . But, I know he checks on here alot.

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Re: New 4 Stoke Class for 2009

Post  Jessica Luther on Thu Oct 09, 2008 2:39 pm

okay ...I have written them to ask. but,
Here is the phone number to find out which fly wheel is approved. (858)-451-8868 flower
HOPE THIS HELPS.

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Re: New 4 Stoke Class for 2009

Post  Karl Cleeton on Sat Oct 11, 2008 5:38 pm

Jess -

Let us know what you find out about WKA mandating a SFI approved flywheel for the box stock class. I spoke to Tom @ ARC Racing and it is his understanding that WKA's insurance carrier dropped the stipulation if the engines were not turned over 6000 rpm. There are several WKA tracks in the south that are running the clones Box Stock (per AKRA rules) that are not requiring the SFI approved flywheel. Super Box is another story, approved billet flywheel no questions!

~Karl

http://karting.4cycle.com/showthread.php?t=215185&highlight=wka

http://karting.4cycle.com/showthread.php?t=215310


Last edited by Karl Cleeton on Wed Oct 15, 2008 11:00 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: New 4 Stoke Class for 2009

Post  Jessica Luther on Mon Oct 13, 2008 12:06 pm

my understanding at this point is if the motor turns over 4500 rpms. Then they mandate the fly wheel to be changed to SFI fly wheel.
This is all due to safety . if the fly wheel comes apart it can cause a lot of damage to motor and possible to persons.
I personal think this is a great thing ...but I just want to think ahead......... Murphys law.
What can go wrong will go wrong at some time. so with that being said if thats the only thing that will be a problem lets fix it so there is no question and lets go racing. The cost is really not that much if you really think about the safety and all. Your cost will still be much cheaper than any other motor package out there by far.
In the past post, I posted the phone number to the sfi appoved wheel . They can help.
Remember I need a whole program writting on this class for next year. for the insurance. This is what wka will ask for. These can not be the tracks due to liablity.
Your program will need what ages groups,weights, motor types.(stock,extra)
We are coming down to the end of the year so this will need to be done soon. I then send it to wka to be approved.

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AKRA clone BSP rules

Post  Neil on Tue Oct 14, 2008 7:28 pm

Here is the AKRA Box Stock Project rules as copied from the ARC blog. Newly posted today 10/14/08.

<table cellSpacing=3 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><tr><td noWrap>ARCkartracer
vbmenu_register("postmenu_1927054", true);

arcracing.blogspot.com
</TD>
<td width="100%"> </TD>
<td vAlign=top noWrap>Join Date: 06 04
Location: Albany, Georgia
Posts: 2,388



</TD></TR></TABLE>
AKRA's 2009 Box Stock Rules
Until the new book comes out, I have consolidated AKRA's Box Stock rules with the updates for everyones convenience.
For further information, Go to AKRA's website HERE
Quote:

<table cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=3 width="100%" border=0><tr><td class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Section 8 – AKRA Box Stock Project
Class Structure
Participant ages are determined as of January 1st.
BOX STOCK SENIOR* Age 15 years & up – 375 lbs. – 87 Octane Gas Only – Approved engine: BS Project 6.5
OHV only, with Factory Stock exhaust required. Stamped steel drum shoe type clutches only. (Tires EL Maxxis or
Local Club Tire Rule)
BOX STOCK SR CHAMP* Age 15 years & up – 400 lbs. – 87 Octane Gas Only - Approved engine: BS Project
6.5 OHV only, with Factory Stock exhaust required. Stamped steel drum shoe type clutches only. (Tires EL Maxxis
or Local Club Tire Rule)
BOX STOCK JUNIOR 1* Age 8 to 10 years – 265 lbs. – 87 Octane Gas Only - Approved engine: BS Project 6.5
OHV only, with .500 inch maximum intake restrictor, no steering fairing allowed , maximum nose height 14 inches
from ground level to top of nose, and Factory Stock exhaust required. Stamped steel drum shoe type clutches only.
(Tires EL Maxxis or Local Club Tire Rule)
BOX STOCK JUNIOR 11* Age 10 to 12 years – 290 lbs. – 87 Octane Gas Only - Approved engine: BS Project
6.5 OHV only, with .550 inch maximum intake restrictor, no steering fairing allowed , maximum nose height 14
inches from ground level to top of nose, and Factory Stock exhaust required. Stamped steel drum shoe type clutches
only. (Tires EL Maxxis or Local Club Tire Rule)
BOX STOCK JUNIOR 111* Age 12 to 15 years –320 lbs. – 87 Octane Gas Only - Approved engine: BS Project
6.5 OHV only, and Factory Stock exhaust required. Stamped steel drum
shoe type clutches only. (Tires EL Maxxis or Local Club Tire Rule)

ENGINE SPECIFIC TECH SHEET FOR: BOX STOCK PROJECT 6.5 OVH
Description: Single cylinder, 2 valve, OHV 4 cycle
Important Note: All parts must be Box Stock Project factory production parts unless otherwise specified in
this rules manual. No machining or alteration of parts is allowed unless specifically noted. All parts will be
subject to a comparison to a know Box Stock part (when performing a comparison check it is recommended
to use a + /- .005” tolerance). Engine will be teched as raced. There will also be a $200 claiming rule in place
for this engine. Refusing to accept the claimer will result in immediate disqualification of competitor along
with forfeiture of any points earned to date in class. Competitor will also not be allowed to compete any
longer in that class.

Combustion chamber volume: 27.5 cubic centimeter minimum, with piston at TDC, using prescribed procedure.
Cylinder Head Requirements: Must be OEM casting only. Porting and / or grinding are not permitted. Valve
seats are two angles 45 degrees valve face and 30 degrees top relief. Stock head bolts only, must have four. Head
gasket maybe after market, must be of stock configuration. No copper or aluminum gaskets allowed. Stock exhaust
system only with no modifications. Any stock configuration gasket allowed no other sealer.
Bore and Stroke: Stock cylinder bore is 2.685” max. Stroke is 2.123” + / - .005”.

Carburetor requirements: Huayi model carb only. Carb to intake sealer is gasket only no other sealer allowed.
Choke must be as supplied from factory, but may be fixed to stay in open position. Choke bore .810” NO-GO.
Venturi .615” NO-GO. Rear carb bore .751” NO-GO. Main fuel jet .028” NO-GO. Stock air cleaner assembly only.
Valve Train: Stock valve cover only with any stock configuration gasket, no sealer.

Factory stock rocker arms and
push rods only. Stock valves only 45 degree angle only both valves, no modifications allowed. Only Box Stock
valve springs only. Max wire diameter on spring wire is .698” with a maximum tension of 10.8 lbs. at a height of
.850”.

Ignition system: Stock Box Stock system only and must be unaltered. Kill switch and low oil sensor may be
disabled and removed.
Flywheel: Box Stock flywheel only with plastic fins. No alterations of any type allowed. Must also run stock
flywheel key.
Piston and Rings: Must be unaltered Box Stock only. No machining of piston and rings allowed.
Connecting Rod: Stock Box Stock rod only. No machining of any type allowed. Stock rod bolts only.
Crankshaft Requirements: Stock Box Stock crankshaft required. Machining, polishing, addition of material or
other alteration of crankshaft is prohibited. Stock factory timing gear mandatory and must be installed in original
location. Crankshaft journal diameter is 1.180”- 1.175” min.

Camshaft Requirements: Stock as cast camshaft only. Maximum running lift of .245” checked at valve as run.
Block Requirements: Block must remain stock as produced. Stub for governor may be removed and hole plugged.
No machining of block allowed. Welding to the block shall be for rod damage repair only and may not constitute a
functional modification. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Quote:

<table cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=3 width="100%" border=0><tr><td class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">The Following updates are optional changes as of September 1, 2008

Carburetor/Fuel Tank Requirements: Floor Mounted fuel tank allowed (stock tank to be removed). Pulse type fuel pump allowed. Fuel pump must be pulsed from either the crank case or the valve cover. You may install a flat metal plate in the original tank location for the purpose of mounting the throttle linkage and fuel pump. Aftermarket air filter adapter allowed (max length of 1.375). Main fuel jet may be drilled to a no-go of .042 inch. Stock emulsion tube must be used and unaltered.

Header and Muffler Requirements: Any single stage, one piece header made from .750” O.D. steel tubing allowed with the BS tube style muffler part # 89966 or it’s aftermarket equivalent(ex: rotary power) installed at the end of pipe. The tube style muffler may either be welded or tread fitted to the pipe end. The entire exhaust pipe including the muffler is 14” max length and 10” min length. </TD></TR></TABLE>


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Re: New 4 Stoke Class for 2009

Post  Jason Hernandez on Wed Oct 15, 2008 7:40 am

Thanks Neil!

Jess, How do these rules compare to the rules for WKA? Are there major differences?

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Re: New 4 Stoke Class for 2009

Post  Jessica Luther on Wed Oct 15, 2008 6:57 pm

I don`t know untill you guys get them to me on paper. WKA does not have any rules other than the fly wheel rule. You guys must write your rules out so

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Re: New 4 Stoke Class for 2009

Post  Jessica Luther on Wed Oct 15, 2008 7:01 pm

I cant say untill you give them to me on paper. WKA doesnt really have any other than the fly wheel. I will give everyone a copy of what they have in print.
You guys can put anything you want on here but until it goes to wka for approval .I dont know.
sorry!

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Re: New 4 Stoke Class for 2009

Post  Karl Cleeton on Wed Oct 15, 2008 9:52 pm

Jason - I have been in contact with WKA's Technical Director Dan Stowell. WKA does not have a set of rules for Box Stock. They are however continuing to gather information so that they can publish a set of guidelines for track owners who want to offer the class as a local option.

I was told that WKA will be doing some dyno testing with the AKRA Box Stock setup as per the rules in Neil's post. This will be done in the next few days to see how much (if any) the AKRA spec pipe & aftermarket air filter change the RPM. Also WKA has changed its position since the 7/17 post on the WKA web site. They now allow "Box Stock" clone engines to be run without a SFI certified flywheel. The decision was made by Mr. Stowell along with Van Gilder who is WKA's Executive Director, so I'm pretty confident I'm communicating with the right folks. This change was sent out in a postcard to all WKA Master Tracks so I don't know why Kinsmen did not get one.

I have expressed in previous post, my opinion in favor of following AKRA's Box Stock format. I feel that AKRA continues to follow the true "spirit and intent" of the Box Stock Project despite recent changes in the rules allowing the spec pipe with a lawnmower muffler, air filter and remote fuel tank which were done mainly in the interest of safety.

Mr. Stowell suggested that we go to the BOD with a proposal and ask them to submit their Track Application including the clone motor with the changes as outlined in AKRA's box Stock rules. He thinks that there is a very good chance that WKA will accept them. Mr. Stowell also stated that their insurance company will insure just about anything that WKA approves.

I will be in touch with Mr. Stowell to find out if the results from dyno testing have changed WKA's stance on the use of the spec pipe and aftermarket air filter for Box Stock racing.

Karl Cleeton



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Re: New 4 Stoke Class for 2009

Post  Karl Cleeton on Wed Oct 15, 2008 10:45 pm

Jess - what is the drop dead date for submitting our Track Application to WKA for approval?
Also, refering folks to SFI will only result in direction to Tom Cole at ARC racing, the very person that has spent so much time and effort trying to prove the stock clone flywheel is more than adequate for Box Stock racing as outlined in ARKA's rules. ARC is the only one making an SFI approved flywheel for the clone, so it is kinda funny that he would pay for independent testing of a stock flywheel to find out that it spun up over 11,000 RPM before failing, especially since he is in the business of selling billet flywheels.

For anyone looking to purchase a billet SFI approved flywheel contact Tom Cole at 800-521-3560.

~Karl

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Re: New 4 Stoke Class for 2009

Post  Jessica Luther on Thu Oct 16, 2008 11:03 am

The first of the year is when I send everything in.
so you will need it then. But the club will have to go over everything and approve it.
Karl, I am sure you have heard about the clone motor that came apart and hurt the driver.
It went to a big law suit. What they do back east is not what happen in California let me sue you state. If by putting this fly wheel in will help with the safety of this motor ...what is the problem? China clone motors are just like the china little motorcycles. They are not quality. They break easy. Please dont put the club in that spot. Buy the fly wheels and run your class.

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Re: New 4 Stoke Class for 2009

Post  Karl Cleeton on Wed Oct 22, 2008 2:22 pm

Jason -

Could these photos have anything to do with you rotating all of our pull starter handles toward the front of the kart?







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Re: New 4 Stoke Class for 2009

Post  Jason Hernandez on Wed Oct 22, 2008 6:20 pm

Looks like fun to me!

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Re: New 4 stroke class for 2009

Post  Neil on Thu Oct 30, 2008 6:28 pm

I started to assemble my BSP 4 stroke and found that the BMI motor mount that is supposed to be at 15 degrees, is actually 20 degrees. Has anyone else found their motor mount from BMI highly angled? I maybe over thinking this, but the angle might be too much for a 4 cycle engine that has to be splash feed oil from a flat sump. Also the carburetor has a float bowl that should be kept close to level. This is not a 2 stroke w/ a pumper carb, Dorothy. Shouldn’t we be using a mount that is closer to level? Chris, what angle is your mount?

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Re: New 4 Stoke Class for 2009

Post  Karl Cleeton on Sat Nov 22, 2008 8:48 am

Arc's new top plate for the clone engine. Sweet!

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Re: New 4 Stoke Class for 2009

Post  Matt Dixon on Sat Nov 22, 2008 11:18 am

All these trick new parts will start adding up...

Like all of karting its only as cheap as you make it Very Happy
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Re: New 4 Stoke Class for 2009

Post  Karl Cleeton on Sat Nov 22, 2008 6:11 pm

You had to go and point that out didn't you Matt.

Now all the kart shops are going to figure out there actually is money to be made off clone racers and start stocking parts. Darn it!

Myth busted, chalk if off the list (right below #39 "the mysterious exploding flywheel").

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Re: New 4 Stoke Class for 2009

Post  Matt Dixon on Sat Nov 22, 2008 10:07 pm

The "almost box stock" racing.
Then the trick billet stuff comes out..
Then the NEED to win takes over...

Gotta love racing.

Im just fun'n' with you guys.... have fun doing it, thats what matters!
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Re: New 4 Stoke Class for 2009

Post  Dan Chase on Sun Nov 23, 2008 8:57 am

I'm ordering my new clutch and BSP pipe on Monday, I hope to get some work done on my kart while I have some time off for Thanksgiving.

Hmmmm......... I wonder if my old viper would qualify as "Vintage" for the vintage kart day on the 29th?!?!? Laughing
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Re: New 4 Stoke Class for 2009

Post  Simon on Wed Dec 03, 2008 3:02 pm

Been a bit quiet around here. How's the builds coming along ?

A question. What tires are we going to stipulate we run ? I'm getting my wish list for Santa together and a set of tires will be on there. (Notice how Americanized I am buy calling them "tires" and not "tyres" ;-) ).

Simon.
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Re: New 4 Stoke Class for 2009

Post  sjburnsed on Wed Dec 10, 2008 2:57 pm

Any word on the flywheel issue yet? the season's not to far away.

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Re: New 4 Stoke Class for 2009

Post  Dan Chase on Fri Dec 12, 2008 7:13 pm

I don't think it's offical until it's in the minutes, but I heard from a good source that WKA will allow the stock flywheel, govenor removed, spec pipe and aftermarket air filter in the box stock class.
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Re: New 4 Stoke Class for 2009

Post  Simon on Fri Dec 12, 2008 11:07 pm

Tires, tires, what tires should I be putting on my high powered beast ?
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Re: New 4 Stoke Class for 2009

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