New 4 Stoke Class for 2009

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New 4 Stoke Class for 2009

Post  Jason Hernandez on Wed Jul 02, 2008 2:22 pm

Karl and I are toying with the idea of a clone 4-stroke on a full size kart. Box stock at 6.5 hp. Guys back east are getting almost 70 MPH on a road course on them!

Put in pump gas and go!

The best thing is that you would only be about 250$ into the whole motor. Motor, mount and clutch! Throw it on a old roller and you got the "dad" class!

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Post  Dan Chase on Wed Jul 02, 2008 3:27 pm

Yup and they get around the track pretty well too! That would sure give me a reason to pull that old Emmick Viper of the wall, add some rock hard tires and go racing again, it sounds like a blast! We used the Honda 120 in Quartermidgets and they would go 2 years between rebuild, just add new valve springs once in a while that takes about 5 minutes. They sound cool too! Laughing

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New Class

Post  Neil on Wed Jul 02, 2008 8:08 pm

Well guys, I think that's the way to go. Karl should be able to Ebay one together in a couple of weeks don't you think? Then we can put it together by the next Dixon race and everyone can get a look at it and maybe see it run. Drivers wanted. bounce

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Re: New 4 Stoke Class for 2009

Post  Dan Chase on Wed Jul 02, 2008 8:44 pm

We already have about 5 or 6 drivers! I just heard some good news today. I talked with someone at Harbor Freight who knew what was going on and they will have them back in stock in California in about 2-3 weeks. They regularly have them for $99 - $129 on special! The new part number for the California model will be lot #92549

It takes about 30-60 minutes to remove the governor, I use to do it all the time when we raced Quarter Midgets, it's pretty simple. You can buy a throttle linkage kit for about $20 or make your own, it's pretty easy. Clutches cost $40-$60 add another $60 for a motor mount, $30-$60 for a pipe and $20 for a chain guard and bolt it on your old Emmick or Invader and go racing! Very Happy

Do they still make the Bridgestone YBN or is there an equivalent?

Karl and I were talking about how easy it would be to put together a couple of Club Karts so newbies could give it a try. How many of us have an old hard tire kart just gathering dust? Does anyone know what the liability would be for the club if we did something like that? How cool would that be for bringing in new members?

Or... we could all get Comer 50's!!! affraid
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Re: New 4 Stoke Class for 2009

Post  Simon on Wed Jul 02, 2008 9:59 pm

I'm watching this with interest. I have been mulling over the idea of getting a kart for me to play with on practice days. The idea of a low budget dad class might get me inspired to go racing.
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New kart class

Post  Neil on Tue Jul 29, 2008 1:33 am

I hope that most of you had an opportunity to stop by the pit area where Karl Claussen and Dan Chase were, this last race. Dan brought his 4-stroke engine that is pictured above elsewhere on this thread. We are hoping that this engine package will performance and be more in line with what most are looking for. Dan will have to correct me on this but I think that this engine puts out approx 14 horsepower and the cost is around $500.00. That is with the mount, fuel pump, exhaust and carb. Again, Dan and Karl can jump in here and expand on this. Now, there are other engine packages that can compete with these horsepower and cost figures. But, will they run without routine tear down for the whole season? Elsewhere in the U.S. these same engines have been raced up to two years without failure. Although, still in the planning stages, I feel that the engines could be purchased and stored together. Then at each event an engine will be assigned by a drawing. That way the engine “Tinkerer” would not be tempted by taking an engine home and you know what would happen. Just think of the possibilities! Bring out your old Karts and hard tires. Maybe make it mandatory that you have a son or daughter that races and ……….. What do you think?

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Re: New 4 Stoke Class for 2009

Post  Dan Chase on Tue Jul 29, 2008 12:50 pm

I posted some pictures of what my current motor looks like, when it's finished it should be putting out over 14hp. I'm still waiting on a Billet Flywheel and cam, then it should be ready for the track. The basic kit without motor mount or clutch is $450 with all the parts and engine to make about 13.5hp.You can check this link for more details. http://arcracing.blogspot.com/2008/07/new-superbox-kit.html

I also added a 22mm Mikuni carb to mine, but that might not be necessary. The stock engines sell for $99-$150, so no need to rebuild them after two years, just throw them out and transfer all the race parts to a new engine.

I used a $40 Max Torque clutch on mine, I have heard from the guys in the South they are getting a season on one without any rebuilds racing nearly every weekend. The old shoe centrifugal clutch can handle heat a lot better then our modern disc clutch does. Since then Karl found another one for $20.
http://www.maxtorque.com/html/racing.html

Karl also found a billet motor mount for $40,
http://www.bmikarts.com/shop/index.php?shop=1&itemid=193&passedfrom=thumb&showFullImage=
I bought one for my engine and so far it's pretty cool, the mount has a ton of adjustments on it and you can move the mounts side to side and forward to back. That should make fitting the 4 stroke a lot easier to either a Euro or American chassis.

Like Neil said, we are thinking a hard tire rule so older chassis will be competitive. It was Rick's idea to pool the motors and pea pick before the race, we just trying to figure this all out, so any ideas are welcome, we want to keep it cheap, competitive and fun! We also have some Junior II drivers interested as well.

So who's in???




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Re: New 4 Stoke Class for 2009

Post  Jessica Luther on Tue Jul 29, 2008 6:14 pm

how loud is that motor? That pipe looks like it will be very loud.

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Re: New 4 Stoke Class for 2009

Post  Dan Chase on Tue Jul 29, 2008 7:16 pm

What....????? I can't hear you Jessie, can you speak up? Wink

(it doesn't have a muffler on in that pic, it shouldn't be any louder then the F200 guys)
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New kart class

Post  Neil on Wed Jul 30, 2008 11:08 am

Jessie,



“We” (the club members and those that read this forum) are encouraged to be part of the process. Dan’s motor is the first, and the one we learn from. A good muffler can be a consideration (Noise vs. Horsepower) depending on how this one sounds.



We are putting this project on the forum not only to showcase this motor package. But, to solicit comments, opinions and to find out who would be interested in participating in such a class. Anyone and everyone with questions on this experimental class are welcome to add to this forum.

Thanks Jessie for bringing up a very important issue.

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Re: New 4 Stoke Class for 2009

Post  Dan Chase on Wed Jul 30, 2008 12:44 pm

I ordered my pipe without a muffler, we have two choices, one is the RLV muffler that sells for $30, the other is what we used in Quarter Midgets on the OHV Honda motor this was copied after, it's a Briggs & Stratton muffler/spark arrester and sells for under $5, they worked very well in Quarter Midgets.

Here is a YouTube video of a very similar motor package during break-in.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCPSx7gMyL0&feature=related
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Re: New 4 Stoke Class for 2009

Post  Karl Cleeton on Wed Jul 30, 2008 8:00 pm

Video with a stock muffler as required for the "Box Stock Project".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEq6Ehc78N4

This guy picks Friday the 13th for his first test....Yikes! affraid

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Re: New 4 Stoke Class for 2009

Post  Jason Hernandez on Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:02 pm

The
Box Stock Project or "Clone Racing" is a return to grass-roots
karting.



Clone
Racing is economical, family oriented and Fun!

To learn more about the "Box Stock Project" follow the link
below. Be sure to click on all of the buttons while your there, especially the
rules.
Boxstockproject.com

In addition to the Box Stock Project, GatorMoto has
been promoting the same basic concept by creating a network of race tracks throughout
the US
that feature their "Road Rat" line of clone karts GatorMoto
Racing
- The karts GatorMoto
Road Rat


Links
to a couple of forums dedicated to clone
racing are Bob's 4 Cycle Karting Forum OHV Motors - Box Stock
Project (Clone)
and CloneRacing

You can find the answer to most any question you
have by browsing the threads, using the search engine or posting, or
post your question here on this thread and hopefully someone viewing will help
answer it.

One person who has been instrumental in the development of clone
racing is Tom Cole from ARC Racing. Tom is just a super friendly and
helpful guy whose passion for karting becomes apparent after only a few moments
talking to him. If you call Tom be
prepared to spend a lot longer on the phone then you had planned. ARC's website is currently undergoing
renovations however a link to Tom's Clone blog can still be viewed at http://arcracing.blogspot.com/. Be sure to click on “older” at the bottom of
each page to see more, including dyno test runs from an “out of the box” engine
up to their “Super Box” engine, which is similar to the engine Dan Chase has
assembled.



A
couple of “Club Karts” are currently in the works and should be ready soon for
anyone wishing to drive and see for themselves what clone racing is all about.



If
you are already putting a clone kart together for racing or testing, or this
concept interest you or just has your curiosity up, please feel free to leave a
post here with your questions, thoughts or comments.



Or
you can send an email with your contact info to the forum administrator or moderator
and your name will be added to the list of people interested in running what looks like
a reasonably cheaper alternative to playing with the "race" motors that we have all put
a lot of money into...................

How many of you have had a friend or family member want to drive your kart but you think
it is not a good idea due to the amount of money you have tied up in a race motor?


Last edited by Jason Hernandez on Fri Aug 08, 2008 11:54 am; edited 4 times in total (Reason for editing : Cause I can!)

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Re: New 4 Stoke Class for 2009

Post  Jason Hernandez on Wed Aug 06, 2008 8:26 am

It looks like Karl and I will have our engines by the end of the week, and Chris already has his. bounce bounce bounce bounce

Neil, are you going to get one?

Kevin?

Simon?

Any other Dad's / pit crew / Mom's?

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Re: New 4 Stoke Class for 2009

Post  Dan Chase on Wed Aug 06, 2008 4:19 pm

You mean you guys aren't done yet??? Wink

I have been documenting my build on my old '95 Emmick Sportsman, I was hoping to have it done last weekend since we didn't have race, instead I collapsed on the coach. I don't know how Donald Durbin does it every weekend!

Mounting the new seat was a challenge with the 4 stroke, there isn't as much room as there is with a 2 stroke. Also the 4 stroke has the clutch inboard, the rear sprocket carrier needs to be switched to the inside of the right bearing hanger. I'll start a new thread in the Tech forum on the build when I get a chance, I hope a few others do that as well.

Here's my old Emmick just as I hung her on the wall in 1997, I loved this kart and she was very good to me, I can't wait to get her back on the track.

Here she is now with some old new stock Gearbox bodywork and the clone Super Box Motor. I haven't chose what I'll run for a nose cone or fairing yet, this was some stuff just laying around.
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Re: New 4 Stroke class for 2009

Post  Neil on Thu Aug 07, 2008 6:00 pm

I was waiting for the word on the Honda engines from Harbor Freight. Which engines did Karl get? I talked to Chris and he got two “Box Stock” Briggs & Stratton engines. Are there any rules yet? We just sold Ryan’s #2 HPV-3 motor. I am ready!

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Re: New 4 Stoke Class for 2009

Post  Jessica Luther on Fri Aug 08, 2008 10:33 am

okay guys.....I need all your motor specs....age, weight , extra. what engines. this is for wka for insurance. I need this for evey class we run at the track. I turn this in on every class.
at the club meeting we will talk more about this. It will really be fun for you guys.

flower

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Re: New 4 Stoke Class for 2009

Post  Simon on Fri Aug 08, 2008 6:34 pm

Jason Hernandez wrote:It looks like Karl and I will have our engines by the end of the week, and Chris already has his. bounce bounce bounce bounce

Neil, are you going to get one?

Kevin?

Simon?

Any other Dad's / pit crew / Mom's?

Yup, I'm very interested. I need to find a chassis. Anyone got any leads on a used chassis ? (European preferred as my toolkit is pretty much 100% metric!)
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Re: New 4 Stoke Class for 2009

Post  Dan Chase on Fri Aug 08, 2008 10:09 pm

Jessie, no worries, it's already a WKA class, I'll get you all the details.

Simon, does your toolkit include a lot of Lucas products also??? Wink
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Re: New 4 stroke class for 2009

Post  Neil on Sat Aug 09, 2008 1:31 pm

Dan,



Your Viper is looking good. I noticed that your Kart still has straight steering. We had put Ackerman Steering on ours. It made a big difference and only requires a steering shaft and longer tie-rods. That’s the only thing we did to our Viper to modernize it. Looking forward to seeing it at the track.

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Re: New 4 Stoke Class for 2009

Post  Simon on Mon Aug 11, 2008 12:34 pm

Hi guys,

I'm up in Truckee for the week and Jason said he though
the Reno Harbor Freight had these motors in stock, so I might drive
down and take a look. Looking at the website it looks like there are
CARB and non-CARB versions. The non-CARB being cheaper. I'm assuming to
keep the playing field level I should go for the CARB version ? Does it
make any difference, am I going to throw ara the CARB specific bits
anyway ? (The non-CARB motor is cheaper).

CARB motor :
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=96500

Non-CARB motor :
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=96549

Does anyone else want me to get them one while I'm there ?

Simon.
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Recieved Engines today!

Post  Jason Hernandez on Mon Aug 11, 2008 5:14 pm

UPS delievered 2 engines today!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! bounce

Should be installed and running by the next race.

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Re: New 4 stroke class for 2009

Post  Neil on Mon Aug 11, 2008 10:52 pm

Dan, what angle engine mount would you recommend? Jason, are we going to run a pipe or the stock muffler. Is there a particular clutch that we should be getting or is it going to be open? Guys help me!!!!!



Simon, I recommend getting the non-carb engine. 1 It's cheeper. 2 It's going to be for off road use only. 3 None of the other Kart engines are Carb certified.

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Re: New 4 Stoke Class for 2009

Post  Dan Chase on Tue Aug 12, 2008 9:05 am

Simon, I agree with Neil, get the non EPA certified engine, be sure and look the flyers in the front of the store, there is usually a coupon in there for the motor for $99 - $129, sometime they have them online as well.

Neil, you will need a 15* mount, any mount that works with a Briggs & Stratton will also work with the clone. Karl found this one and I also bought one, I really like it because it gives a ton of offset options, it's also the cheapest mount I found at under $40!
http://www.bmikarts.com/shop/index.php?shop=1&itemid=193&passedfrom=thumb&showFullImage=
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Re: New 4 Stoke Class for 2009

Post  Karl Cleeton on Tue Aug 12, 2008 12:43 pm

Neil - Clutch can only be the shoe type, no disc. Max Torque, Noram, Comet and Premier just to name a few. The Comet is low end with the Premier at the upper end, in both price and quality. MaxTorque and Noram seem to be what most racers are using. You can contact Jim at MaxTorque (630-369-9600) and he will spec a clutch out for you for 48 bucks. Chris Bachman went with the Noram (for it's simplicity) from Comet Kart Sales. He was told gearing 15-60 for Box Stock should be about right for our track. Jason and I have a 14 and a 16 tooth Noram type clutch to try out on the first 2 club karts but we only have 1 #35 sprocket (73t) and so we are looking for someone that may have a stash of old 35 sprockets we can use to figure out gearing.

We are going to start out "Box Stock" per BSP rules for the shake down testing and I believe Chris is doing likewise. I think Dan is going straight to the "Super Box" set up. New rules for 2009 Super Box are being hammered out as we speak. Of couse BPS / Clone racing is a local option class for WKA so our club can tweek the rules as they see fit
however, IMHO the"spirit and intent" of the Box Stock Project should always remain first and formost.

Current Box Stock rules can be found at www.boxstockproject.com and discussion on 2009 Super Box rules at http://karting.4cycle.com/showthread.php?t=204340

Info on upgrading your Box Stock to Super Box can be found at http://karting.4cycle.com/showthread.php?t=205495

~Karl

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Re: New 4 Stoke Class for 2009

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